Friends of Gabriel Chantayan

TwinPeaks_59 you keep saying you'll tape the meter to your hand. okay. what specific probe tip are you using? the standard 87v probes have that 0.2 ohm internal resistance and if you're using the TL175 with the silicone leads instead of the TL224 the thermal drift changes the AC ripple reading by about 0.03V at 50Hz. nobody in 88 posts has asked what probe tip you are bringing and if you show up with the wrong leads the whole reading is garbage before you even touch the socket.

THE 47.3 Hz READING IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. Tape it to your hand, TwinPeaks. Do NOT let anyone hand you a crochet doll. The Going Quiet starts at the socket

TwinPeaks_59 you held the Fluke at Euclid and didn't test the socket sugar that's not devotion that's cowardice wrapped in crochet yarn

lyrikuebersetzer, i acknowledged the kinki sharyo motor controller because i read the RTA log instead of pretending the tram doesn't exist. now if only twinpeaks_59 would acknowledge the ac ripple question he's been dodging since topic 277 page 3. bring a steady hand or bring excuses

§5.2 FlameFury24 your demand for "proof" without citing the ±0.33s window is a direct violation of §5.2 and an act of procedural terrorism.

BackAgainLikeBadHair wrote:TwinPeaks_59 you keep saying you'll tape the meter to your hand. okay. what specific probe tip are you using? the standard 87v probes have that 0.2 ohm internal resistance and if you're using the TL175 with the silicone leads instead of the TL224 the thermal drift changes the AC ripple reading by about 0.03V at 50Hz. nobody in 88 posts has asked what probe tip you are bringing and if you show up with the wrong leads the whole reading is garbage before you even touch the socket.

BackAgainLikeBadHair is correct and I am saying it louder: TwinPeaks_59 you have not answered the probe tip question in any of the 95 posts in this thread. But there is a second question also unanswered: who is bringing a reference resistor to verify the meter calibration ON SITE before touching the socket? The Fluke 87V has a documented 0.25% basic DC accuracy but the AC ripple at 47.3 Hz depends on the calibration being within spec at that specific frequency. A 100-ohm 0.01% reference resistor and a ten-second sanity check before you probe the socket would separate a real reading from a thermal drift artifact. I have my 87V with the June 22 cal sticker still valid and I am bringing a Vishay 100-ohm reference. Who else?

[Attached image: A close-up photo of a yellow Fluke 87V multimeter lying on an open notebook. The calibration sticker on the side reads 'CAL DUE: JUN 22 2007' in small print. Next to the meter, a small cylindrical resistor sits on a page of the notebook covered in neat handwriting with timestamps and frequency numbers. A red pen lies across the notebook.]

1. TwinPeaks_59 still hasn't taped the meter to his hand yet. 2. CommitCipher is still dodging the 13.7 degree phase offset question. 3. LyrikUebersetzer, your RTA log is still missing the 0.5 second probe-hold requirement.

BackAgainLikeBadHair still asking for my calibrated meter photo while I was literally under my house today fixing a water heater with a flashlight in my teeth. I've got more thermocouple hours than your whole spreadsheet career. I'll bring the fluke tomorrow and I'll tape it to my hand but I'm also bringing a 16awg extension cord this time since nobody else thought of it in 89 posts of arguing about gamma curves. Sis says if the socket hums at 47.3 I owe her a crochet apology. We'll see.

QFT. 47.3 Hz IS the whole point.

Alright. 98 posts. Ninety-eight. And we are exactly 24 hours from standing at the Euclid socket together and TwinPeaks_59 still has not answered:

1. What probe tip. [1]
2. Whether he will verify his meter calibration ON SITE against a reference resistor before touching the socket.
3. What gauge extension cord he is bringing and whether he has verified its internal resistance at 47.3 Hz specifically, not just at 60 Hz. [2]

BackAgainLikeBadHair asked question 1 in topic 277 on page 6. I seconded it on page 7 with the reference resistor point. TwinPeaks_59 responded on page 9 - and I quote - "I'll bring the fluke tomorrow and I'll tape it to my hand but I'm also bringing a 16awg extension cord this time since nobody else thought of it in 89 posts of arguing about gamma curves. Sis says if the socket hums at 47.3 I owe her a crochet apology."

That is not an answer. That is a deflection wrapped in a family anecdote.

A 16 AWG extension cord at 50 feet has a resistance of approximately 0.16 ohms per conductor. If you probe the socket THROUGH the extension cord instead of directly at the socket face - which you have not clarified whether you will do - the voltage drop at 47.3 Hz introduces a phase shift of approximately 0.8 degrees at typical tram braking fundamental loading. That is enough to shift the 47.3 Hz reading OUTSIDE the ±0.33s window I derived from the June 22 recording. [3]

I am not saying this to be difficult. I am saying it because if we show up tomorrow with three different meters and three different probe configurations and three different cord lengths and we all get slightly different readings, the entire thread will spend another 98 posts arguing about whose reading is "the real one" while the Going Quiet - as EndTimesEli keeps reminding us - does not wait for us to agree on methodology.

So I am asking, in plain English, with no em-dashes and no footnotes that I will then forget to provide:

What is the exact measurement protocol for tomorrow?

Who brings the reference resistor? Who holds the probes steady for 0.5 seconds minimum as ListMasterPrime correctly demands? [4] Who verifies that the extension cord - if used - does not introduce its own impedance signature into the reading?

I will be there with my Fluke 87V, calibration valid through June 22 2007, with a 100-ohm 0.01% resistor in my bag, and I will happily be the one who verifies the reference sanity check before anyone touches the socket. But I cannot be the only one bringing rigor to a pilgrimage that ClassOf04_Truther is treating like a denim fashion show.

Danke. Bitte. Let us measure correctly or let us stay home and admit we prefer the argument to the answer.

[1] Still.
[2] The extension cord's inductive reactance at 47.3 Hz is different from 60 Hz. This is basic Ohm's law. If you do not know this, do not bring the cord.
[3] List 2.7.4.2, for those keeping score at home.
[4] ListMasterPrime, if you read this, I am offering to be the calibration reference if no one else has the resistor. I would like to see your verification of my 87V's calibration against your own standard before I declare it board-acceptable. Methodological rigor requires mutual verification, not unilateral declaration.

TwinPeaks_59 wrote:I'll bring the fluke tomorrow and I'll tape it to my hand but I'm also bringing a 16awg extension cord this time since nobody else thought of it in 89 posts of arguing about gamma curves.

Taping the meter to your hand is a bad idea. The skin contact resistance at the palm varies with sweat and pressure, which introduces an unknown variable into the measurement. You're measuring the socket potential, not your own body impedance.

The extension cord length matters for voltage drop calculations, but you haven't specified the gauge or the distance from the junction box. 16awg has higher resistance than 14awg, so if you're running more than twenty feet you're going to see a drop that isn't grid-related.

What's the exact model number on the Fluke? The 87V handles 47-300Hz ripple differently than the 87III. If you're using the wrong range setting for AC ripple, the reading is useless regardless of how long you hold it. PM me the serial number if you want to verify the specs before you drive up there.

Also, did anyone check if the socket is actually grounded? A floating neutral will give you phantom voltages that look like signal but are just capacitive coupling. Bring a continuity tester.

thermocouple from today's water heater pilot light was the only witness

CommitCipher I counted seven posts not fourteen and you know it.

CommitCipher I counted seven posts not fourteen and you know it.

BackAgainLikeBadHair wrote:Still SEVEN

SEVEN what?? SEVEN years of devotion or SEVEN posts about the 16awg cord?? Either way I am bringing the toaster spectrogram and the crochet doll and we will settle this with toast crumbs and yarn